Ziad Baroud proposes to amend legislation for Lebanese Jews

29Apr09

zyiad_baroudOur young and well respected Minister of Interior Ziad Baroud proposed yesterday that the Cabinet amend the legislation that currently labels Lebanese Jews as “Israélite” to “Lebanese Jews.”

Members of Lebanon’s Jewish sect are referred to as Israélites on their identification cards and on electoral lists.

Baroud’s proposal asked the Cabinet to adopt a draft law to differentiate between a sect “whose rights are legal and protected by the Constitution and between the subjects of an occupying entity.”

The Jewish sect in Lebanon is recognized, and its rights are guaranteed by the ninth article of the Lebanese Constitution that guarantees all the Lebanese freedom of religion,” Baroud added.

Advertisements


20 Responses to “Ziad Baroud proposes to amend legislation for Lebanese Jews”

  1. 1 Ladonna

    Hello, tthe whoke thinbg iis going sound here andd ofcourse evdry one iis sharing data, that’s truly
    fine, keep up writing.

  2. 2 Kayla

    There is another wrong notion running on the minds of the people that Goji berry means Wolfberry
    which is found in China. perms is a comma separated checklist of granted permissionswindow.
    Goji Berries maximize the creation of white blood cells.

  3. 3 mama

    Dear Andrea,
    you speak as if Israel gives Palestinians living in Isarel and on land occupied by israel their basic human rights! nationality, freedom , work, and hospitalization and .. and …. and you talk about jews not able to expose their star in beirut ?? and after Israel bombarded Lebanon for one whole month and destoyed its infra structure and killed its people????

    Please give me a break …………..

  4. 4 Andrea

    Correction…

    Merci Raffi, mais je dois y aller. Cependant, tous les Ministres doivent faire ce que le ministre libanais Baroud a fait. Je sais que la politique libanaise a la distinction entre les Libanais Juifs et les israéliens juifs (pro-occupation, de nombreux, trop nombreux) mais le problème demeure… Les gens dans la rue, les gens ordinaires doivent comprendre cette différence. À mon avis, media libanais ne traitent pas bien ce problème, il existe peu d’informations principalement par le biais de la télévision au Liban. En outre, tous les politiciens libanais devraient soutenir la francophonie libanaise, comme cela a été dit par le président Suleyman. Comme la Constitution libanaise, à l’article 11: “L’arabe est la langue nationale officielle. Une loi détermine les cas dans lesquels la langue française mai être utilisés”. Bien. L’arabe est langue officielle directement, mais la langue française est indirectement officielle, en ce sens que, la Francophonie est exprimée mais de manière indirecte dans la Constitution. Le français est indirectement nommé par la Constitution. Ce n’est pas le néerlandais… mais le français. Je soutiens la Francophonie avec l’arabe. Tous mes amis parlent français. Il existe de nombreuses écoles francophones libanais, je décharge les fichiers de Radio Liban en français. Ceci est un autre sujet… Je dois sortir, désolé, bye, Andrea.

    … Pensez-vous… J’ai acheté une grammaire française simplement parce que la couverture représente les gens de boire des verres de vin dans la campagne. Donc, Je pensais… “Oh… C’est la Vallée de la Bekaa!”… :-)

    Thank you Raffi but I must go. However, all Ministers must do as the Lebanese Minister Baroud did. I know that the Lebanese political distinguish between lebanese jews and israeli jews (pro-occupation, many, too many) but the problem remains… People on the street, ordinary people must understand this difference. In my opinion, media Lebanese do not deal well with this problem, there is little information mainly through TV. Moreover, all the Lebanese politicians should support the Lebanese francophonie, as was said by President Suleyman. As the Lebanese Constitution, in Article 11: “Arabic is the official national language. A law determines the cases in which the French language may be used”. So… Arabic is the official directly but the French is indirectly official in the sense that the Francophonie is expressed indirectly in the Constitution. Yes, French is appointed indirectly by the Constitution. Not the Dutch… but the French. Francophonie is supported by me with Arabic. All my friends speak French language, also French. There are many Lebanese francophone schools, I have the files of Radio Liban in French language. This is another fact… I must go, sorry, bye, Andrea.

    Think you… I bought a French grammar just because the cover depicts people drinking glasses of wine in the countryside. So, I thought… “Oh … Bekaa Valley!”… :-)

    Anyway, if you are a muslim lebanese, I’d like to change mails with you because I want have many contacts above all muslims and not only with chrisitians and jews.

  5. 5 raffi Perdejian

    Andrea
    it was very nice to debate with you thank you .
    And I Respect sincerely your believes
    Have a great day

  6. 6 Andrea

    Effffffffffffffffffffff. My opinion will be different also in this time but your words are not “my enemy”. Minister Baroud was right as he spoke in a PUBLIC and CONCRETE ways. The Jews from Europe may expose their chain with the Star of David without being mistaken for “Israelis”. Of course, here in Europe there are other problems, such as pro-Nazi. I am “so defensive” because I suffer for this topic because I understood the suffering of my friends lebanese jews. Their situation is WORSE THAN that of the Lebanese Muslims and Lebanese Christians. If you want to believe otherwise, “ok”, democracy is democracy. As just said and bis-said, I do not live in Lebanon, so, I understand you for other things (public toilets are not a good thing also “chez moi”). Anyway the priority IS and WILL BE security for all. If Lebanon had been an island without other neighboring nations, the Lebanese would have fewer problems…My last response because I must do a lot of things, sorry, we have different ideas for some things and not for all. Bye.

    Effffffffffffffffffffff. Mon avis sera différent aussi à ce moment, mais vos paroles ne sont pas «mon ennemi». Ministre Baroud a droit comme il a parlé en public et len moyens concrets. Les Juifs d’Europe exposent leur chaîne de mai avec l’étoile de David, sans être confondu avec «les Israéliens». Bien sûr, ici en Europe, il existe d’autres problèmes, tels que les pro-nazi. Je suis “de manière défensive”, car je souffre de ce sujet parce que j’ai entendu la souffrance de mes amis juifs libanais. Leur situation est pire que celle des Libanais musulmans et chrétiens libanais. Si vous voulez croire le contraire, “ok”, la démocratie est la démocratie. Comme vient de le dire et de bis-dit, je ne vis pas au Liban, donc, je vous comprends pour d’autres choses (les toilettes publiques ne sont pas une bonne chose aussi “chez moi”). De toute façon, la priorité est et sera la sécurité pour tous. Si le Liban a été une île sans les autres pays voisins, le Liban aurait moins de problèmes … Ma dernière réponse parce que je dois faire beaucoup de choses, désolé, nous avons des idées différentes pour certaines choses et pas pour tous. Au revoir.

  7. 7 raffi Perdejian

    Andrea
    Do you think that the legislation of Mr Baroud will give the lebanese jews the confidence to expose their Star in the streets?????
    I don’t think so.
    From all the people who practice the jewish faith the exposition of the Star of David is only on their Synagogue .
    IN France , in England ,in Greece ,in Hungry.in Los angeles in Sydney and Melbourne Australia which country you want me to nominate to you.And in Beirut in Wadi Abou Jamil the Synagogue has the Star of DAVID .Even in Tehran the Synagogue has the big Star of David
    Andrea the Star is there on every Synagogue ,I am not understanding what are you after.And I am not understanding why are you so defensive.
    And I am not understanding when you say I quote”the law is not sufficient” and Mr Baroud is legislating that means he is actually making a law ,to change from Jew to Israelite.
    Am I missing something here???
    1-You don’t live in Lebanon you receive you letter because where ever you are the street are nominated and your home or unit has a number you don’t have postal problem.
    2-You don’t live in Lebanon you have power 24 hours a day
    3-You don’t leave in Lebanon you can go and swimm in your Ocean or sea because your suwerage is treated.
    4-you don’t live in Lebanon if you need to go ,you can go in a public toilets,but in Lebanon in public places you have no where to go.
    You don’t think that those 4 points are priority to the people who live there ????,so they can get a little quality in their live ?

  8. 8 Andrea

    No No No No No No, said to all of you. You, Me and not many people know that “Lebanese Jews” are Lebanese but you have to ask yourself why… Why “Lebanese Jews” doesn’t exposes their Star in street? In the world there is so much ignorance, even in Lebanon there is ignorance as in other nations around the globe. It is better with a different adjective: “Lebanese Jews”. The “Lebanese Jews” live a delicate situation, I know their feelings. Perhaps you have not ever spoken with one of them… Ok, the name is not enough… We need to educate people to make the difference between “Lebanese Jews” and Israeli Jews which encourage occupation. Raffi, you said: “The legislation already protect this group of people they are born in Lebanon and they are Lebanese and much more then the one who discriminate against them”: the law is not sufficient, as you said, you need to educate people by MEDIA , beginning with the tv. I still think that the Minister Baroud was right with his proposal, he was also “cultural”. Many Lebanese Muslims and Lebanese Christians are not yet ready to receive the “Lebanese Jews” at the light of day. There is not enough CULTURAL PROMOTION. Minister Baroud was right with his proposal because he did CULTURAL PROMOTION. For the rest … I do not live in Lebanon, and even if I watch the Lebanese news, I do not know the details “civic”. Your 4 points should be ok also for all but priority is another: as long as the “Lebanese Jews” will be treated as “suspicious” in their Home, beh, Lebanon will always be incomplete. “Kulluna li-l-watan li-l ‘ula li-l-‘alam”…

    Non Non Non Non Non Non, a dit à vous tous. Vous, moi et pas beaucoup de gens savent que “les juifs libanais sont libanais, mais vous devez demandez-vous pourquoi … Pourquoi les juifs libanais ne exposer pas leur étoile dans la rue? Dans le monde il y a tant de l’ignorance, même au Liban, c’est l’ignorance comme dans d’autres pays dans le monde entier. C’est mieux avec un autre adjectif: “Juifs libanais”. Les Libanais Juifs vivent une situation délicate, je sais que leurs sentiments. Peut-être que vous ne l’avez pas déjà parlé avec l’un d’eux … Ok, le nom n’est pas assez … Nous avons besoin d’éduquer les gens à faire la différence entre les Juifs libanais et les Juifs israéliens qui encouragent l’occupation. Raffi, vous avez dit: “The legislation already protect this group of people they are born in Lebanon and they are Lebanese and much more then the one who discriminate against them”: la loi ne suffit pas, comme vous l’avez dit, vous avez besoin d’éduquer les gens par le programme MEDIA, à commencer par la télévision. Je continue de penser que le ministre Baroud a droit à sa proposition, il était aussi “culturelle”. De nombreux musulmans et chrétiens libanais ne sont pas encore prêts à recevoir les “juifs libanaise” à la lumière du jour. Il n’y a pas assez de PROMOTION CULTURELLE. Ministre Baroud a droit à sa proposition, parce qu’il a la PROMOTION CULTURELLE. Pour le reste … Je ne vis pas au Liban, et même si je regarde l’actualité libanaise, je ne connais pas les détails “civique”. Votre 4 points devrait être bon aussi pour tous mais la priorité est autre: aussi longtemps que les “Juifs libanais” sera considéré comme “suspect” dans leur Maison, beh, le Liban sera toujours incomplète. “Kulluna li-l-watan li-l ‘ula li-l-‘alam”…

  9. 9 raffi Perdejian

    Andrea
    No wonder why Lebanon do not progress ,instead to work towards the infrastructure of the country the politician has to think about a group of Lebanese different religion.
    The legislation already protect this group of people they are born in Lebanon and they are Lebanese much and more then the one who discriminate against them.
    Word JEW is not an insult,it is not a race, it is religion like any other religion,and people believe in it ,it is their business,they can ware the star of David as they wish
    Mr Barood should think how to educate the ignorants ,perhaps Lebanon will be a better place.
    In my opinion every politician should work towards the following four point as a commencement:
    1-Lebanon needs road names and the houses and units should be numbered for postal purposes.
    2-Lebanon need public toilet ,everywhere .(How ridiculous Hariri build the CBD ,What a Shame,destroying the charm of Beirut and having shops with the most unhealthy western cuisine.)if you call that progress , to me that is adding cholesterol in the blood of the citizen.
    3-Lebanon need public generators to produce normal power ,enough with the eshtirak and wire every where
    4-Lebanon should clear mechanically ,chemically,biologically the suwerage before damping it in the see.
    Barood might be right but this 4 points should be his priority.And every politician should think about this 4 points for a better place.

  10. 10 Andrea

    I do not agree with you, Raffi. Even I know that the Lebanese Jews are LEBANESE but do you have to understand this thing to the other … Why the Lebanese Jews live in fear of being mistaken for Israelis? There is still much ignorance. As I said, I have lebanese friends: Lebanese Christians, Lebanese Muslims and Lebanese Jews. Lebanese Jews had often hide their “magen”, its Star of David … Especially from 1967 onwards. Why? Because their star was exchanged by the people, as the star of David of the Israeli army, Israeli bombs, the Israeli Air … So … Clarify, better to have more clarification. Minister Baroud was right.

    Je ne suis pas d’accord avec vous, Raffi. Même moi, je sais que les Juifs libanais sont LIBANAIS mais avez-vous de comprendre cette chose à l’autre … Pourquoi les Libanais Juifs vivent dans la crainte d’être confondus avec des Israéliens? Il y a encore beaucoup d’ignorance. Comme je l’ai dit, j’ai des amis libanais: libanais chrétiens, musulmans et juifs. Libanais juifs ont souvent cacher leur “Magen”, son étoile de David … Surtout à partir de 1967. Pourquoi? Parce que leur étoile a été échangé, par le peuple, comme l’étoile de David de l’armée israélienne (les bombes israéliennes, l’Air israélienne etc. ) … Alors … Clarifier, de mieux pour avoir plus de précisions. Baroud ministre avait raison.

  11. 11 raffi Perdejian

    I think Mr Baroud is waisting his time ,instead to work towards changing a label to a group of people who are already Lebanese but different religion .Anyway who cares?
    He better fix the post system ,plan Beirut nominate the streets and number the houses .So instead to write an descriptive address like( so and so building next to this landmark opposite that land mark)Ridiculous .
    To label somebody” Our young and well respected Minister of Interior “well fine but what is he doing,he has to be full of Ideas ,how he send his letters how he receives his letters.?????
    Now you want to tell me the post is not his responsibility ,well it is the responsibility of every citizen.As long as you are a tax payer the minister is your employee.
    Raffi

  12. 12 Andrea

    It is an intelligent idea. In the Middle East the word “Israel” (and similar) is associated with Zionism but “Israel” is not only a state but it is a “people-religion.” There are the sons of Ishmael (Islam) and there are the sons of Israel (Jacob). In Europe, because of anti-Semitism, the word “Jewish” is still “almost” bad word but in the Middle-East it is good, since it is opposed to the word “Israeli”. Who decided to live in Lebanon, despite civil war and kidnappings of the past, is 100% Lebanese. All Lebanese must understand this. I have Lebanese friends, Lebanese Christians, Muslims and Jews. To my eyes they are all from “Libnen”.

  13. 13 Andrea

    Finaaaaaaaaaaaaaally a distinction between Lebanese jews and Israeli jews!

  14. I don’t think Lebanese (as in Lebanese Druze) is mentioned. I mean that would technically be redundant. So why Jewish Lebanese?

  15. I don’t know enough about how religious groups in Lebanon are identified in order to make a comparison, but it’s interesting to note that the new title will be Jewish Lebanese as opposed to Lebanese Jews. It may be that other groups in Lebanon are similarly identified (is it Lebanese Druze or Druze Lebanese?) but placing one adjective before the other seems to place greater emphasis on the religion/culture than on the nationality. Is this what is generally done in Lebanon?

  16. I agree with sean. Correct facts. But still here in Lebanon people are *this* narrow minded that it would warrant such a change.

  17. In Arabic, of course, there is no difference between Israelite and Israeli, but in English and French, there is. Historically, the term “Israelite” referred to the biblical Jews, the descendants of Jacob. Before 1948, the term was often used interchangeably with “Jew.” For example, most of the Jewish schools in Lebanon were run by the Alliance Israélite Universelle, the French pan-Jewish, but non-Zionist, organization that was begun in 1840 in response to the blood libel case in Damascus.

    That being said, we’re in Lebanon, and most people don’t make a distinction between “Jew” and “Israeli,” so it’s probably a good idea for Lebanese Jews to have Israelite scrubbed from the official record.

    For more info on the subject, there’s a new paperback edition of Kirstin Schulze’s excellent book, “The Jews of Lebanon.”

  18. 18 Moe

    It’s funny, for a country that dosen’t recognize Israel, it labels it’s ‘own citizens’ as Israelites. Lebanese Jews are as much Lebanese as I am, and you are!

  19. Does anyone even know how or when this rename first took place? What the hell was the government on when it decided to give its own citizens another nationality?

    The whole idea is just beyond my comprehension.

  20. 20 Ziad

    gotta love this guy!


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s